From stacycats@nyc.com Thu Jun 10 11:04:34 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:43:31 -0400 (EDT) From: stacycats To: K. M. Ellis Subject: Re: [BManNYC] security, rangers, pdf and you i am working no jedi powers here, any guilt trip is your own. but, nice to see youve kept up ypur tradition of adressing people directly on the list instead of in person. i guess you dont know the meaning of the word OFFLIST? you see pdf as your turf? then what the fuck are you doing all up in mine, calling people out, etc? youre a pussy and a bitch for not talking to people direclty. you failed the people of pdf by not protecting them. YOU deal with that. this attempt on your part to pick up the pieces after the fact will never change that. ::s K. M. Ellis said: > > Another digest, yay! > > In my mind there are a few levels of "whuh oh, gotta do something about > this": > > 1. Deal myself, words or action > 2. See if a friendly/skilled person I know will help me (at PDF this would > be either a buddy or a ranger) > 3. Get an authority figure to hear what's up, and have them exert (request > law enforcement) > > I've only heard of one account where Eli was dealt with by pdf rangers > (maybe there was more, or maybe I have my facts totally wrong..the rangers > haven't put out their report yet and when they do it won't include > names.). My understanding is that it went very well and he stopped > bothering the people he was bothering at that time. > > But he wasn't issued a khaki-enclothed babysitter for the rest of the > weekend, and sheez, rightly not. Most fucked up people can be counted on > to pass out eventually and sleep it off. I'm a little annoyed with him at > his failure to do this, but that's a personal thing. > > My own interaction with him - I didn't really think I needed a ranger. To > me he was a mild to moderate nuisance. More on this shortly. > > To them what are still hatin', please consider: > > Way more than money, PDF runs on a currency of goodwill (we run a pretty > cheapo operation money-wise). It's willful and repeated taxation of that > economy that gets to me, and in that situation (this can happen at the > event or between events) I've got no problem going public. Stacy, > you're either over this by now, or you aren't. I'm pretty sure I'm not > going to change my stance on this, and your jedi guilt-trip powers are > just not working, so give it a rest already. > > We've got a damn good social safety net going on at PDF. Everyone really > looks out for each other, we have systems that have evolved to deal with > different problems and obstacles. And everybody's insured! (If you must > get sick, get sick at PDF!) I think we've got a good mix of standards and > flexibility, forgiveness and hard limits. > > I have no problem when someone needs to tap that social safety net. The > person who has a psychological meltdown, the married couple having a > terrific epic fight, the person who suffers an injury or forgets to take > their insulin, even the drunk clueless guy leering at the topless babe and > making her feel icky..that's all part of the package. I believe it's not > the end of the world when someone messes up and where there's an incident > it should be handled promptly and fairly right there on the site. Not > everything needs a ranger, and thank goodness. > > But back to the issue at hand: If this was a matter of one guy getting > annoying at the event you wouldn't be reading this. This is really about > somebody who ought to know better following this destructive pattern > across multiple days at a single event and - as people are telling me > offlist - across multiple community events. > > Quad really put it best; one way or another this pattern will not be > repeated by this individual at PDF again, and people throwing these kinds > of events in your community, in my estimation, should be getting the heads > up. That's _my_ way of looking out for _you_. > > More on dr*gs, resorting to stating the obvious now: there's quite a > difference between saying "some drugged up moron was bothering me" and > "hey I have 500 of [whatever] going for $x/pop, meet me inthe pavillion > saturday at noon". And: the Man just wouldn't have to reach this hard for > an excuse to shut us down, Josh. They'd just show up. And thanks, Fey. > > What would I like to see Eli do or not do? I'm not sure. Y'all are closer > to him than I am, I know he'll have more than a few pairs of eyes on him > at your next party, which - sorry Stacy and Josh - gives me a little > validation. > > -K > > -- > Kathleen M. Ellis, K.S.S. -- KB3CWP -- http://www.tux.org/~protozoa > "She said, 'I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me' > I said 'I would if I could but I don't do sketches from memory'" > -Bob Dylan > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: newyork-list-unsubscribe@burningman.com > For additional commands, e-mail: newyork-list-help@burningman.com > > Visit New York City online. Special offers on hotels, shops, attractions, and more. Plus FREE @nyc.com or @newyorkcity.com E-Mail! http://www.NewYorkCity.com http://www.NYC.com