From protozoa@gwyn.tux.org Tue Jun 8 13:42:10 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:33:27 -0400 (EDT) From: K. M. Ellis To: newyork-list@burningman.com Subject: Open letter to Eli Lovin Hi Eli, We've met a few times, I think at a previous PDF and this one too. I've also read your posts on this list in the past, and maybe you've read mine. At any rate, I know you're no stranger to this burning thing, and generally I've known you to be a pretty cool guy; a recognizable and friendly face in the crowd. I've got some mixed feelings about this letter, Eli. I'm kinda pissed off at you, and concerned. Basically, I'd just like to know what was up with you at PDF? You were just harsh, man, nonstop harsh. You got way more fucked up than you could handle for far, far too long. And not fucked up in a pleasant kind of way or even in a "just blowing off steam" kind of way. I think I've got a higher tolerance for people's bullshit than most (I get a lot of practice working with my own, har har). You burdened me and the others around you through the whole weekend to such a degree that I'm still buggin over it. You were super confrontational around the burn stack sunday night. You stumbled around delivering loudmouthed harassment and insults to all in your wake. As your weary friends packed up your camp monday morning you persisted in asking everybody around you for more drugs. That is wack, dude. Totally wack. And that is just the stuff I witnessed personally -- reports are still rolling in. Down at supersecret PDF cabal hq we've been piecing the weekend back together from memories and incident reports to talk about what went wrong, what went right, what to do for next time, etc. Slowly it has dawned on us that every single report of "aggravational guy" "overly touchy feely guy" "harassing guy" "nuisance guy" are all you. This kind of thing happens at every event, there are always incidents with inexperienced, clueless, or malicious behaviors and we deal with them. But dude, you're no beginner at this. Is there some kind of explanation? Is it likely to happen again? Yours, -K -- Kathleen M. Ellis, K.S.S. -- KB3CWP -- http://www.tux.org/~protozoa "She said, 'I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me' I said 'I would if I could but I don't do sketches from memory'" -Bob Dylan From protozoa@gwyn.tux.org Wed Jun 9 16:36:16 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 01:58:56 -0400 (EDT) From: K. M. Ellis To: newyork-list@burningman.com Subject: Open letter - follow up to everybody else Buncha things at once - I'm on digest. The reason I wrote the letter was that I had to, I had every right to, and in a sense I was obliged to. There are 2 reasons the letter was posted publicly (which I decided to do after some pretty careful deliberation), and if you disagree then we'll agree to do so. First - I am reaching out to the new york community on this one because I am struggling with this issue, I can't simply let it go, and I need help. If Eli can be helped maybe one of you can do it. The second reason is that if others have had similar problems with this individual at PDF or at other events, and he's got nothing satisfactory to say about it, I'll definitely be taking it to the board to prevent him from attending in the future. I don't want punishing, or karma, or comeuppance. I want this resolved, and without some kind of reparations or "other side of the story" it will be resolved by his being banned from the event if I can make that happen. I've handheld my share of newbies through the initial burner growing pains. I've done quite a bit of question-fielding, cluing in, introducing and patient listening in my day. I've sat people through personal meltdowns (hey I've had em myself), embarassments and all kinds of stuff. I've explained apologized moderated and FLAMEd.. all passionately and COMpassionately. I've kept delicate secrets. I've forgiven and forgotten and understood. And I've had my fuckups lovingly tolerated in a variety of ways. But certain things are just not cool with me because I know they will make our community stop working if left unchecked. Wanton irresponsibility is one of them. REPEATED wanton irresponsibility. I believe that kind of behavior indicates, among other things, a really fucked up sense of entitlement. And this is more in response to some offlist comments I recieved - of course it's up to other participants to protect themselves and deal with bad shit as it happens. Of course the rangers are there to help. But when you intentionally fuck yourself up - very publicly so - and half the event is trying to placate you, avoid you, or resist the urge to punch you in the face - that's a lot of wasted energy. And it puts the event at a great deal of risk. WRT implicating PDF or Eli in illegal actions, I have implicated him no further than he implicated himself (which isn't all that much). He came into my camp Monday morning demanding "more drugs" from my campmate. He was loud. There were a lot of strangers around. (We had never given him drugs and reminded him of that.) We weren't the only ones he asked, either. And..what Gavin said. and that's it for now! -K -- Kathleen M. Ellis, K.S.S. -- KB3CWP -- http://www.tux.org/~protozoa "She said, 'I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me' I said 'I would if I could but I don't do sketches from memory'" -Bob Dylan From protozoa@gwyn.tux.org Wed Jun 9 16:36:34 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:13:10 -0400 (EDT) From: K. M. Ellis To: newyork-list@burningman.com Subject: security, rangers, pdf and you Another digest, yay! In my mind there are a few levels of "whuh oh, gotta do something about this": 1. Deal myself, words or action 2. See if a friendly/skilled person I know will help me (at PDF this would be either a buddy or a ranger) 3. Get an authority figure to hear what's up, and have them exert (request law enforcement) I've only heard of one account where Eli was dealt with by pdf rangers (maybe there was more, or maybe I have my facts totally wrong..the rangers haven't put out their report yet and when they do it won't include names.). My understanding is that it went very well and he stopped bothering the people he was bothering at that time. But he wasn't issued a khaki-enclothed babysitter for the rest of the weekend, and sheez, rightly not. Most fucked up people can be counted on to pass out eventually and sleep it off. I'm a little annoyed with him at his failure to do this, but that's a personal thing. My own interaction with him - I didn't really think I needed a ranger. To me he was a mild to moderate nuisance. More on this shortly. To them what are still hatin', please consider: Way more than money, PDF runs on a currency of goodwill (we run a pretty cheapo operation money-wise). It's willful and repeated taxation of that economy that gets to me, and in that situation (this can happen at the event or between events) I've got no problem going public. Stacy, you're either over this by now, or you aren't. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to change my stance on this, and your jedi guilt-trip powers are just not working, so give it a rest already. We've got a damn good social safety net going on at PDF. Everyone really looks out for each other, we have systems that have evolved to deal with different problems and obstacles. And everybody's insured! (If you must get sick, get sick at PDF!) I think we've got a good mix of standards and flexibility, forgiveness and hard limits. I have no problem when someone needs to tap that social safety net. The person who has a psychological meltdown, the married couple having a terrific epic fight, the person who suffers an injury or forgets to take their insulin, even the drunk clueless guy leering at the topless babe and making her feel icky..that's all part of the package. I believe it's not the end of the world when someone messes up and where there's an incident it should be handled promptly and fairly right there on the site. Not everything needs a ranger, and thank goodness. But back to the issue at hand: If this was a matter of one guy getting annoying at the event you wouldn't be reading this. This is really about somebody who ought to know better following this destructive pattern across multiple days at a single event and - as people are telling me offlist - across multiple community events. Quad really put it best; one way or another this pattern will not be repeated by this individual at PDF again, and people throwing these kinds of events in your community, in my estimation, should be getting the heads up. That's _my_ way of looking out for _you_. More on dr*gs, resorting to stating the obvious now: there's quite a difference between saying "some drugged up moron was bothering me" and "hey I have 500 of [whatever] going for $x/pop, meet me inthe pavillion saturday at noon". And: the Man just wouldn't have to reach this hard for an excuse to shut us down, Josh. They'd just show up. And thanks, Fey. What would I like to see Eli do or not do? I'm not sure. Y'all are closer to him than I am, I know he'll have more than a few pairs of eyes on him at your next party, which - sorry Stacy and Josh - gives me a little validation. -K -- Kathleen M. Ellis, K.S.S. -- KB3CWP -- http://www.tux.org/~protozoa "She said, 'I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me' I said 'I would if I could but I don't do sketches from memory'" -Bob Dylan